Tuesday, 4 October 2016

unknown metal working lathe

Hi all today 04/10/2016 this arrived. As yet I dont know the manufacturer name for it. It is very like an early Drummond but, gut feeling tell me it not for some strange reason. So all, guys & girls any ideas photos etc e mails from you would be much appreciated. (Now identified it is a Drummond M type long bed, Lathe number 1335  this number from factory records dates it back to early 1923) being a long bed makes this a rare lathe. Parts missing now sourced awaiting arrival.  Part still missing  an original  end cover see the bodged up green cover in photo below that where it goes.
(I don't have a photo of what it look like) ANY ONE KNOW OF ONE.?

As soon as I can get it into the workshop I'll post some better photos. In the mean time. please keep checking in I'm really looking forwards to doing this total refurbishment.




 Its still not in the workshop  but not to worry  with the help of my son we managed to lift  and secured  it back on its stand.


Phew far to heavy to carry to theworkshop as it is, I have decided  to stripe off as much as possible first, it has to come apart to be refurbished anyway . Once I have taken off every thing We can  then  carry the main body down to the workshop  which will be much lighter.

Today,  I have made some progress in identifying it, I think the long red handle is a smoke screen, home made, why, ???  I have no idea.  I  noticed some machine drilled threaded holes once  I could see it better at a working height,  now I've realized there was a longitudinal feed bar missing from it.  see in photos  this is indicating more of a possibility its an early Drummond or  My-ford, hopefully  I can find some serial number when it stripped . Stay tuned keep you posted.






Today 05/10/2016 great afternoon in the sun, time well spent stripping,  all the upper parts removed, surprised me the time this lathe spent out in all weathers none of it ceased up. Nearly all stripped what left on the main base unit will be stripped in the workshop.



Just waiting for Number 1 son to come home from work then we will lift the base unit off the stand and down to the workshop, that is some chunk of metal. At the turn of the century they certainly knew how to build machines.


All parts waiting for stripping everything back to bare metal first.

Hi all here we are now back from a weeks holiday spent in Mamaris Turkey it was lovely.

 As you can see, its all in pieces now, I've tried  paint stripper it does work but, it doesn't get it completely clean and right back to bare metal,  sort of 99 %, I've just won on eBay a second hand battery charger 10a heavy duty unit, I can now set up  an electrolysis  tank to remove everything right back  to clean bare metal ready for painting, make life a little easier.

Battery  Charger arrived earlier today,  now  I need to source a suitable  tank or large tub.

This is where it will sit when not in use, Now I,m off t to sort a suitable tank and a donor chunk of metal.


Here it is unpacked  and in the workshop.

OK electrolysis  tank now set up and working  its very slow  but very thorough.  In the tank are some of the smaller bolts and some of the smaller parts, Rather than placing one item in one at a time I bought a flour sifter, snipped of the handle and wired is as a tripod connected the other ends of the wire  to the cross bar  and connected the neutral clip from the battery charger to them. bubbling away nicely.  Its needs to be in there much long to get that heavy rust off  removed just for the photos.


I sourced both of the head stock cog guards,  there hung up with a coat of paint remover left on them over night, I'll give them a wire brushing later to day  and a second coat of paint remover  clean them up then into the  tank for a final clean off t.


Yesterday I applied the first  primer coat to the tail stock (seen below), once all the bolts and locking levers are done I'm going to rebuild the tail stock without the  top coat of paint, primarily for two reasons.

1. I intend to send the base bed off to get the bed reground so don,t want top coat paint ruined in this process.

2. When the bed is reground they will regrind the base of the tail stock, and head stock  at the same time so they all seat down at the correct levels, once this has been down then I'll  strip it all apart again and apply top coat.


loads more to come, (I have managed to find a source for the main  cogs guard still awaiting photos and a price for it, so stay tuned on this one.)  Still awaiting a reply.

Started to rebuild the  tail stock  but only with grey primer on it for now, im off on holiday  to see my daughter again today  so  spent the morning in the workshop  getting what pieces had just come out of the electrolysis  bucket ready and primed.




 
I  also now have to get another brand new bucket as this one has sprung a leek.

As i was killing time  just before my holiday i decided to chuck a plug on the motor to this lath  the wiring is very bad and  grumbling away with splits every where, but what i thought was a knackered motor due to the  time the lathe was outside in all wind and weather, its a runner nice surprise, that will save me a lot of money, as soon as, I'll strip it oil grease and maybe some new bearing lick of paint completely rewire the whole system, more on that later.


Tail stock placed back on the lathe bed, as yet not finished due to leaking  electrolysis bucket sprung a leek ,next into the bucket was to be the tail stock wheel and a few other bits ,but ha ho it will have to wait till i get back  and buy a new bucket.

I'll see if i can source some new chrome  lever lock handles if not I will have to paint these black.




Earlier in the week I tested the bed for flatness with a very accurate  straight edge and a set of feeler gauges  all flat right down to the end in front of the head-stock where I could only just slip it under with a thickness of 0.002 gauge.

  
Its progressed  very slowness over the last few weeks, I did managed to source the end covers           (complete with back panel and brkt) to cover all the gear cogs, I've also purchased a better  1/2"chuck and key the old one two badly pitted to use safely,  sourced a new arbor and key for an older  chuck albeit 3/8  plus two new  centers  one with a floating head, so all in all a lot of down time on the laptop.

In the workshop pieces were soaking in the electrolysis tank  which has now aloud me to reassemble the tail stock. While assembling the tail stock I discovered a major problem.



 As  can be seen  my problem is, two missing adjustment screws. As far as I'm aware these are for minute adjustment to line up the tail stock with the head stock.(dead center) My problem here is where do i source these from without having to buy a complete second hand tail stock? any ideas?.

Sunday, 26 April 2015

Refurbished Startrite bench drill mercury mark11 5 speed

I originally did this refurbishment back in 2012, since then it became unattached in my blogger for some strange reason and went walk about somewhere in the internet world.   I found a forum with a lot of help it was recovered but with  all of its photographs missing.  

I knew it was going to be difficult to rebuild it and  replace all the photograph in all the right places after  two years gap I kept putting it off, BUT, I decided to bit the bullet  and have a go.

I have been at it now  for three nights, phew finally got the bugs out.   Its as near as I can remember the original post , I'll leave it now at this stage.  If you have any problems  seeing the photographs please E-Mail me but in the meantime  enjoy. 

I won this on e bay a few days ago, it was to be a project to do over the winter months,  but I decided I could really do  with it in operation now, Today I decided to start stripping it to remove that ugly great iron bracket which bolted it to a wall.

What is seen in the first photo is how it was in use the foot on upside down the column also in upside down and the bracket welded to the bottom of the column which is now the top  fixing, once I started stripping I soon found it was crammed full of mdf dust including the motor it's lucky it never caught fire so that will be fully stripped also. Belt so slack it nearly touched in the middle, wiring all faded and perished so colour cannot be distinguished.



 
The next few photos show the foot having been removed with rubber column end cap and what I assume to be a support bracket of some kind which I suppose it will become clearer at a later date, I have started to grind away the weld to try and remove the column in one piece rather than cut through the column and loose a few inch off of the working height of drill head.



OK so now to remove that ugly bracket, thought about for a while and decided seeing it was only welded on one side, (thank goodness,) first I ground off as much of the weld as I could then attacked it with a hacksaw and hammer. the photo's will explain.


Next I stripped the entire body apart as seen here.

When I removed the inner quill section I found two very small problems, one was a vertical movement which can be adjusted the locking collar was slack and needs to be pushed down the shaft tightening the vertical movement before locking the grub screws, the second when the splined shaft was remove from the pulley wheel but with the quill still in its shaft there was a sideways movement on the top bearing, but the bottom bearing was fine replace the splined shaft back in it pulley spline and no movement, hmm it could left and reassembled but as it's stripped down this far its time to replace all the bearings and drive, I'll get an order off  some time next week when the nations back to work.

In the mean time tomorrow I'll grind the rest of the remaining weld off and clean the rust and tarnish off the main column then reassemble that, clean up the main body frame and respray that with a grey primer.


To clean all that grim away I decided it would be best done on my lathe. Before I could mount the column to the lath I had to turn a very quick wooden bung from an off cut of 100mm x100mm softwood to fit the ID of the column, I mounted the column to my M950 lath and used 1" stripped roll sandpaper, got a brilliant result, I'm well chuffed.

I had meant to wax the column while It was mounted to help stop any future rust and completely forgot , wooden head what am I.

 Column mounted in the lath


here it is now the base finally the right way up, with the column back in it place, Column also the right way up now with end cap fitted now in it's right place.



The base has also had the rust cleaned away but still needs painting when its all been reassembled and fired up, last job yesterday was a quick first coat of spray paint to the main framework body, later today if it stops raining pop down to Halfords to some grey primer and give it another couple of coats.

First thing today ordered new bearings, new drive belt but couldn't get the cogged type, I did manage to get a second hand rise and fall table from the same company, I don't know yet what sort of condition its in till it arrives tomorrow. Now it time to pay a visit to Euro fasteners,picked up a couple of new grub screw's to anchor the stem to the base old ones missing. Then went to Brewers  my paint  suppliers and ordered the paint as close as I could get to match the colour that will also be in tomorrow,  then on to Halfords to get the grey primer.
Back in the workshop applied two more coats of primer to the main framework as can be seen in one of the follow photos, spent the rest of the day cleaning , things like the centre Bose, quill outer shaft and its main drive shaft, cogs jammed with hardened MDF dust, I then  puff polished all the rust off the chrome handles and buffed up the black  hand knobs as well.

Finished off today by taking off the name plate etc, ready to start rubbing down in preparation for primer tomorrow to the main body panels etc.

 
quill shaft cleaned and now waiting for new bearings tomorrow.
cleaned Bose

 
Drive shaft waiting to have cogs cleaned




stem back in now locked, showing main frame fully sprayed and reassembly beginning to take shape.
      Today finished priming all parts to be painted then set about rebuilding the quill not difficult at all, bearings and thrust bearing all fitted nicely, I have also reassemble the quill back into the head main frame and reinstalled the return springs as well, the entire strip down has been well worth it. I have succeeded in removing the vertical movement in the quill and most definitely by replacing the bearing has removed all sideways movement from the quill, the entire quill movements are now solid. I'm well chuffed.

     
    all priming now completed.
    REASSEMBLING THE QUILL.
     
    top bearing tapped in to the quill outer casing, but also showing the lower bearing on the quill shaft itself ready to be fitted.
     
    lower end of outer quill casing showing the trust bearing fitted into position with the spacer collar fitted as well, the lower bearing on the quill will sit on top of this when fitted shown in the photo already on the quill shaft.
     
    here I am fitting the the upper locking collar through the side of the out quill housing, make sure you have push this collar down as tight as you can this when locking with the two grub screws this will stop any vertical movements on the quill inner shaft.

    Now the quill shaft is completely reassembled. I then refitted the quill return springs cleaned and fitted the old chuck hmm not sure I 'll use that one it's a bit past it's sell by date , think I'll fit a keyless chuck instead.
     
    main framework assembled with quill, quill return spring and chuck all fitted



    Now it's time to start putting it all back together on a temporary basis for now.

    HI all, The first photo shown here today was meant to be shown yesterday but, for some reason the forum would not allow me to add this photo, it's happened before I seem to get five photos and it wont allow me to add any more to the post, hmm is it me or a strange rule we have on the amount of photos per post?. anyway here it is partly assemble ready for stripping and then to apply the topcoat of paint.

     
    All parts have now had there top coats. When I was at brewers looking through there colour chart the colour I chose was the nearest I could find to the piece of drill cover I took Their with me. hmm not so sure now a bit pale, never mind to late now, when it dry and the satin finish will show better.




    Now to allow for the paint to start to harden before handling over the coming week, In
    A few days time start to strip the motor and give that a really good case of looking at.


    OK the paint dried really well over night after a couple of visits to Euro fasteners for all new nuts and bolts plus a few self tappers and hey presto all rebuilt. 




    Next to strip apart the beast.


    Right motor stripped apart, OMG. This is what I cleaned out for inside of it, this is only part of it since I have had the drill I have moved the motor about from time to time and large quantities of dust kept falling out hence the reason why I decided to strip it as, I was concerned by the amount that kept falling out.
     
    Here is just a reminder of what I found when I removed the cover remember it travelled on a pallet board via courier from Yorkshire and this was still covering everything when it arrived, Hmm I wonder if the company it came from has heard of dust extractors?.

    Anyway onwards and upwards now stripped and cleaned. This morning primer sprayed and now drying.



    One possible problem has come to light, The main shaft seems to have a vertical movement when assembled of about 1-2 mm Don't know if this is meant to be there or not.

    In the following photos it shows what appear to be spacer washer I can't see they could be there for any other reason, There are two sets of these one top of motor the other at the bottom seems like they are there sandwiched between internal upper and lower casing to stop any vertical movement , Do you know differently? now the 1-2mm vertical movement is that because these are worn do you know the answer to this question?

    Next the wiring but I need to speak with bob on that first.

    Postby 9fingers » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:31 am

    No need to worry about the end float Martin. Often there is a weak spring washer in with the spacers but not always.

    However it does indicate that the bearings are quite loose in the end castings, which can be the start of a problem where the bearing spins in the casting, wears that away to a really sloppy fit and is irreparable.

    So add a tiny drop of bearing retainer/nut lock or even super-glue as you reassemble the motor. this will stop any tendency for the bearing outer to spin and yet with a sharp knock, will release should the bearing ever need to replaced.
    Only use a little and keep it out of the working parts of the bearing.

    When you are ready, send me a nice sharp photo of the connections under that plate and I'll assist with the star delta changeover.


    Bob thanks for the info above, OK bear in mind I am not and electrician and certainly not an electrical engineer so be gentle with me please. I have posted this here for other to follow this thread at a later date if they wish

    First I Have taken requested photos for you but before we start that, having taking a good look at the inner core cables and outer casings on both the thin black cable from the starter on/off switch to the motor and the thicker whit cable from the starter on/off switch to the I assume the power supply box that was, they both are perished and have some damage to them.

    I think it's best to renew them both, this brings me too colours?, both of the present cables have three brown inner cables and the green and yellow earth.

    New four core cables I assume will have new colours codes? if they do what are the colours likely to be,and what colours goes where.

     





Postby 9fingers » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:21 pm
For re- assembly wiring please re- read my earlier post on the subject

Then follow the instructions on the underside of the cover and fit the straps in the delta position.

Cut the white cable back a bit and you should find good clean cable and wire direct to the three motor terminals. It does not matter which is which at this stage.

Can I have a photo of the other side of that rotary switch please Martin.

I may need you to probe that with a resistance meter or indeed a continuity tester. Do you have one?

Bob here you go photo of the other side of the switch set in the vertical off position.

My meters.


I tested for breaks in all four inner core cables on the white cable this was the reading on all four.
 
It's now set in delta while I was doing this I forgot to test the black cable for any breaks so will do that tomorrow.


You mentioned that you might want me to probe the switch. I'm not sure how that's done can you talk me through that if it's necessary.

Shown from both side with all the bling reattached waiting for the motor to be fix back in position. Adjustable vice still to be bolted to rise and fall table. one small problem I have is I have two missing rubber stops that the lid when closed rest on but I don't know where to find these items , nor do I know what they look like. Can anyone supply a photo of what there like? see the hole above the lever locking bar there about 16mm across.



Not a lot to report today, I've just been fiddling with a couple of bits of bling to go back on the drill body things, like the back plate to the drill switch, Plus two new rubber stoppers to support the lid at the correct level and then I added the drill tidy from my other pillar drill. I'm as far as I can go for now till Bob works his magic on the inverter for me and then I will continue with the thread.

I have not remounted the motor till after I have tested it with the inverter just in case the motors a dud, Then I will apply the finish coat of paint and then remount it, set it to it's correct working level and adjust the tension on the belts, till then guys that's all.

Day off tomorrow as it's my birthday and I'm going to pop into axminster tools to pick up a keyless chuck for the drill and then visit some friends in Devon.


Walking stick rubber ends with a nut glued into them, then bolted through an elongated slot cut into the back plate to allow for any adjustment if the belts stretches overtime.

finished drill waiting for motor and a few touch up which will be done when the motor has been tested and remounted.

Motor ready and waiting.


Hi Bob carrier pigeon arrive nice and early this morning, what a dainty little thing this inverter is, I cant wait to wire it all up temporarily and try it out, but I have developed over the weekend a real snorter of a cold, and her in door has confined me to barracks for a while, I'll update asap.


Off t to the workshop nice and early this morning to do a temporary wire up of the inverter to test the motor and switch, as I had no idea if they worked. Bob instructions were spot on it all fired up first time. Nice one Bob.

I do have a squeak when the motor reaches around the 60.6 hrtz for some reason, it then disappears when the speed is adjusted higher, top bearing I think, it may disappear when the motor is reattached to the drill and belts are fitted and under tension, maybe, mind you I don't know how long since this motor was used, so for know I have stood the motor on it's bottom end and oiled the shaft with some 3in1 oil and left it over night for now to see if that might help, if not then it an entire strip down of the motor and source some new bearings before re attaching the motor to the main body. I hope not.

Seen here the entire system temporarily wired together with the motor running

running at a 65. 6 hertz with a squeak coming from the motor increase the speed and it stops squeaking

running at top speed while not attached to the pulley system


Postby 9fingers » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:01 pm
Glad it is all running OK. I expect the squeak will succumb to some oil and / or go away when the belt is on.
They are a nice neat little 1 HP inverter. I'm thinking of stocking them for just this sort of application. They can be programmed for smaller motors such as your 0.5HP one
I still like Siemens models but they are starting to get expensive even secondhand as people are beginning to latch on to them.

If anyone has a similar requirement, just drop me a PM and we can take it from there.


As you know a few days ago I wired it all together on the bench only to find it had a very loud squeal coming from the motor, I had hoped I would not have to strip the motor entirely apart but, I had to. Motor on the bottom bearing was red hot, so I decided to bit the bullet this morning after I PMd bob last night, he explain what sort of bearing would be in there and roughly how they came out

Bob Wrote.
Just knock out the old ones and buy replacements based on the dimensions. Could well be imperial sizes but these are still readily available. I'd get rubber shielded ones for choice or metal shield as a second choice.
I expect they will be something like this R 12 2RS 3/4x1 5/8x7/16 which is £2.50 from ebay item 350356237073.
The outer bearing covers are normally thin sheet steel just pressed in. Normally the bearings come out from the inside and stay captive on the shaft.

Take care with pulling off the cone pulley, it is easy to break off a bit of the rim.

The problem you might well have if you go down the replacement motor route is that the shaft sizes on modern motors differ and so the pulley won't fit the new motor so the shaft will have to be turned/modified to fit.

So after it was in three section I knock out the bottom outer bearing cover off from the inside and to my surprise no bearings ,well, at least not the type I was expecting as bob had show me above, the main shaft fitted into a collet which has a large hole cut in the side of it , the collet in turn was very tightly fitted into a housing the strangest I have ever seen again with a hole cut in the side of that surrounded by foam filling with a strange piece of foam acting like a wick hanging down into the outer bearing cover.

Now on the side of the main casing , is a ball bearing oil nipple feed,to feed the oil in, The oil drains down through the foam and into the outer bearing housing cover submerging the wick into the oil , then the oils is soak up it short length and is sucked in through the foam and the hole in the side of the collet and lubricates the shaft, and yea you guessed it as dry as a empty bottle. I reassemble it all cleared the paint off the nipples and pressure fed in as much oil as I could , not sure my old oil can is up to much so I,ll buy a new can tomorrow and pressure feed it again.

In the mean time re mounted the motor and temporarily wired it all again and switched on yes SUCCESS, yes PHEW, though I might have to buy a new motor for a while there, YES BRILLIANT.

I ran the motor on and off over the next hour trying various speed testing then left of for a couple of hrs and went out for lunch feeling really chuffed, later this afternoon I did another test run, this time left it running for approximately 10 mins on about 60 hertz which under normal operating conditions is far more than you would normally use it for in one continuous run , it was just beginning to get warm when I switch it off and packed up for the day, feeling really good.


shown here fitted to it mounting board on it final test run later this afternoon on 59.5 hrtz running for about ten mins.
 

Postby 9fingers » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 pm
Oops - I got that wrong didn't I!

Its a long time since I've come across one of those type of motor. Hopefully with your oil treatment it will be fine. It is quite important to run the belt at the minimum tension such that it just does not slip to avoid bearing wear.

Happy drilling.

Bob , it's no problem, it's the first time I've ever seen one,s like this, when I tapped out the bearing cover and looked in I thought what the bloody hell is that, bearings I thought where the hell are they, that bob must have been at the whisky bottle, but when you really look at the design, as long as it kept fed regularly with oil the shaft is kept moist in oil all the time, there's certainly no play in it, reason for squealing and why it was so hot, totally dry, neglect .

Early start to day in the workshop at 7:30 ish, All this wiring is now completed, as seen .

completed wiring, with the drill tidy when not in use is tuck centrally to the rear directly under the motor out of the way. 
 
I purchase a new pump action oil can today as my old can only dribbles nowadays and gave the motor shaft a really good oiling under pressure, that really quietened down the motor considerable, so all is well there.

Hears the final photo ( at last ) all finished with just a few minor I's and  T's to dot and cross, simple things like paint the motor and guard, and a small touch up here and there. It's now ready for use.

It's finally finished shown working with the drill tidy swung out and in use.
 
Here it is now fitted into it final working position, its forming the corner post to the dirty end of my workshop everything to the left of the band saw Is the clean end of the workshop for woodworking only. I had to sacrifice my bench to get this up and running but I think it's worth it. I am now bench-less.



In the mean time I am now slowly separating all my metal working tools from the good stuff and compacting them into boxes and drawers to fit into that corner for ease of use while working on that bench or at the metal working vice, which is now out of storage and re-fitted on the bench, Plus I'm sorting boxes of bolts, washers split-pins etc etc and moving it all into that area. That will keep me busy for a few days.
IN CONCLUSION.
Would I do it all again Well, maybe definitely yes, ( I'm already looking). Did I learn from doing it myself yes, it was a good learning curve especially the rebuild side of it, next time, I will make sure make it is a complete drill with nothing missing at all, condition wise cosmetically not important but, missing parts are expensive,things like the rise and fall table which I assumed was under the wooden work area show in the photos when it was for sale, the cost of couriers, which has taken any profit away from this drill, so next time I will only buy if I Can pick up myself close to home, bearings that sort of thing I glass as replaceable parts that I would do anyway regardless of condition.

What sort of drill would I buy depends on price condition, depth of quill travel, whereabouts , any extras etc, would I buy another 3 phase and us a converter, without any hesitation at all yes.

This now leave me to thank two people first and foremost our very own Bob (9fingers) for all of his help, last but not least again our very own Chris (old) who surprised me he donated as can been seen in the bottom of the last Photo a drill guard which arrived yesterday, thanks guys.

I hope you all have enjoyed following this thread as as I enjoyed doing the refurbishment for me it was a learning curve hope some of you decide to have a go. enjoy. hc